Not polymeric, it doesnt harden. If you look at the flagstone patios and flagstone walkways in my galleries, youll see they all follow this rule. Then, letting the patio air dryand repeating. Call your local quarry. com should give you all the help you need in this regard. If the stones are set upon a gravel foundation: 1/4 minus. If my advice is at all helpful, then please share my stuff on social media. Sure, if you have 3 gaps between your stones you could fill them with a couple of river rocks, and the decomposed on top/around the rive ricks. If you simply spread out pea gravel on top of the ground, it will start to shift and move quickly. You can make plastic from plants.and that may be less toxic and better for our eco system, than petrol-plastic. Old timbers get new life as a decorative element in a cottage renovation. Do you have pea gravel? As it stands now, even a 20% improvement will satisfy them. Just to confirm, anything called Breeze will be the material you like best and that which you call screenings? I addressed the issue of weeds and dry laid flagstone here As it states in the article, personally, weeds between flagstones dont bother me all that muchand if the weeds really are that bad, then a bit of boiling water will dispatch with them nicely. Find someone who specializes in dry laid flagstone work. My new mason installed flagstone using polymeric sand. Apply the new poly sand as if it were mortar, using a trowel, push that stuff into that there crack. Three potential problems remain however a) the flagstones are on sand. Ive been researching decomposed granite and want to use that but cannot find a place to buy it. Pressing the Escape (ESC) button will close the modal and bring you back to where you were on the page. Well obviously thats absurd. First of all, thanks for the fast response. Anyone use this sand to firm up a stone driveway? Several products on the market specifically work to bind loose gravel surfaces, like Gravel-Lok or EasiHold. The flagstones probably arent perfectly smooth on top and so its basically impossible to get the stone dust flush with the top of the stones anyway, so go an 1/8 to a 1/4 shy of the top. Secondly, never been afraid of a little work!! Very helpful, thanks. My plan was to go with a fairly tight joint for the whole patio but then get even tighter for the 5 feet or so immediately close to the pool.in the end, I think the entire patio got a half inch joint, maybe more like three eighths to a quarter inch, for the few feet closest to the pool, but no major difference, just a smidge tighter right by the pool. If you live somewhere with winters, then it will crack up faster. Perhaps they can offer some ideas. Do you use cold chisels or is a hammer enough? Also, no to weed barrier? Im not worried about your base very much if crushed stone has already sat there for years. Againdo not spray round-up or any other poison unto your patio. A lifting eye present on the top of . Lets examine these advantages one at a time: Related content: One on one help is available. I cant find any advice on-line about how to apply the stone dust. All that space that was filled with water is now air, so its a weak concrete. Heres an application that is somewhat unique, and problematic so far. Just say no to polymeric jointing sand. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo, http://www.alliancegator.com/2011/gator-stone-bond/, http://www.alliancegator.com/2011/gator-rock-bond-liquid-binding-agent/, VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. Make sure to wear rubber gloves for protection. Heres the quick story: Ive reclaimed enough of the small pieces from borders created by the previous owner. My front walk is flag stone set in concrete. What Is The Least Expensive Patio Material. Personally, Id try it if I had some d-limonene lying around. With stone dust the most you have to do is top of the joints every once in awhile. Check out http://www.stepables.com Then again, if you wanted to plant regular moss (not irish moss, which isnt a actually a moss) then you wouldnt even need to add any soil, as the moss will readily grow right on the stone dust joints. Loved your descriptions of patio aesthetics and materials. Then I would like to avoid more polymeric sand, and use what you have described instead. Take a sprinkler and wet it down , it will tighten it up , still be looser stones on top. It's pretty thick, so it's really helpful to have two people mix it. We have 4sands as sub grade than we use Belgard permeable pavers that has 1/2 gap in between, and filled them in with 3/8 gravel. I have completed about 25% of the 800 sf of patio and walkway via this method. Dear Devin, Great thread. But, you came to me with a need and Id rather give you a complete answer. Theres no type of soap that will help, wirebrush does nothing at all. Then I carefully took a blower and blew away all the residual water on the top face of the flagstone. Most anything youd want to plant in between flagstones will grow in a 50/50 soil/stone dust mix. Id recommend removing most of the sand. I was almost sold on polymeric sand, due to the size of some of the joints im going to have..but read your blog. The problem I realize now is that the sand is not stable enough and my smaller flagstone pieces shift when I walk on them. 4. Anyway, sorry to hear of your troubles. PDF for Aggregates/Sand & Gravel Washing Polymer Additions. Ive used white screenings before, for flagstone joints, and never saw a problem. HATED IT!!! . We are a team of passionate homeowners, home improvement pros, and DIY enthusiasts who enjoy sharing home improvement, housekeeping, decorating, and more with other homeowners! Also, its toxic stuff were talking. Any suggestions to avoid this? Assuming that the foundation is gravel. Also, it is unnecessary. The advantages of gravel. JavaScript is disabled. A ton and a half should work, but buy two tons if youd rather have extra than have to make a second order. If theres a concrete foundation, then sure. Any idea how to remove the haze from the pavers? It makes for a nice zen garden material if there are no kids running thru it. Thanks! Should I just wait until it dries out? If the project is large enough to catch my interest financially, or artistically interestingfly me out! I already clear out a 15 X 15 for my back patio. Just curious OP how did adding the sand work out? I just installed a granite flagstone walkway. Fact is, no one really uses it, so I never encounter examples of good, or bad installations using the product. I have in place 30 year old clay brick patios and walkways. We live in Ontario and I am almost done with my flagstone landing. Ochre stone is actually a byproduct of ochre mining, it's kind of like brown crusher run. Its looks like a flat matte color where there was poly sand and where no poly sand you see a beautiful high gloss high color finish.this is the best analogy I can think of. Your email address will not be published. Once the final coat is dried, test the pea gravel for stability. Then I carefully used light spraying of water over the joints ensuring they were fully saturated to the full depth of the joint. This more or less turns your stone dust into polymeric sandand you know the risks involved with that. Very stylistic and attractive stone fitting, very beautiful and interesting contoursI know its a bummer having to re-do some of your work, but this patio is going to be amazing, and real soon too. Ive never known a patio to be be pressure washed more often then maybe once a decade or soMost home owners never once pressure wash their flagstones, so it is usually a non-issue. The local product I found looks identical to yours. Google patio floor drain choose a decent looking one, read their instructions.Im available for consultations if you wish for individualized guidance on this project. I recommend screeningswhich are 1/8 inch and smallerand contain the very important finesflour-like, powdery stone dust. I cant recommend a particular company as Ive only stalled the stuff a couple of times. Spread it liberally on top of the pea gravel then rake it in just under the surface. Thank you for your devotion to this subject. 3. Id use stone dust.but if possible, Id tighten them joints up a bit. It is an old flagstone patio and the morter is coming out at between the stones. Worms? What did I do wrong? Your thoughts please? Scroll half-way down on this link and find the section with the heading How to install stone dust in between your flagstones Sometimes people overfill their joints to begin with, then wonder why they have material spilling out onto the patioaim to have your flagstone joints filled to about an 8th of an inch lower than the top of your flagstones. Its important to compact it thoroughly with a heavy-duty roller. My husband and I were considering using the polymeric sand in our new flagstone patio but my gut was telling me to go with the natural product. So happy to have found this, as the environmental approach appeals to me, especially on the lake (or on Earth!). For urine & feces odor control I spray the kennels occasionally with yard odor killer, which works great.I don't use cement because it is damaging to the dogs pads.To address my problem:I have a long driveway made with reject ab. The joints are too wide. I think you use what you have available. Also, in your article about using gravel, can you use AB3 or Crusher Run? I can say without reservation that you should repair the flagstone patio that you haveand never replace it with stamped concrete. I was told to put stone dust down.lay the faly stone in place then wet the area down. Thank you for the responses. We currently carry sand that comes in 5 colors: brown, black, grey, red and buff. If it deteriorates, it can always be supplemented with the traditional fine sand to insure the strength and stability of the pavement. Here is a video demonstration of how i cut flagstone using a rock hammer: Be sure to comment on the video amd let me know how the technique works for you. Thanks for such a thorough reply. Devin, You are absolutely the best source of info concerning flagstone installation. Polymeric sand, or poly-sand seemed great at first. Is there a solution I can spray on and use myself? Have you ever used limestone stone dust for flag patios, and if so, would you recommend it? I think I read up above that one shouldnt have to pressure wash flagstone patios very often I think you mentioned once every 10 years. Either fulling the joints with soil and seeding, or, during the excavtion Ill carefully remove the sodthe grass itself plus 2 of soil and roots along with it. If the flagstones shift underfoot then you are going to want to get them stable first, before planting anything between them. On the right hand side is modified gravel, or d.o.t road base. Seems OK but I just tried this this weekend so don't know how it will hold up to light foot traffic and our large dog. But it should work well enough, yes. Also, Id wait at least 2 weeks before powerwashing over new jointsand at least that long, more like a month, before using acid. Thanks. What I was wondering was if you could spray a water proofing like what is used on cement to settle the dust and smaller stones down and and keep them in place. Easy to install. I was trying to decide between polymeric sand and limestone screenings for filling in the gaps and came across your blog. http://www.stepables.com/ stepables . It can be used in a pinch if your setting bed is very thin - like 1/4 to 1/2" inch and preferably with a tad bit of a binder sifted in to keep the particles from shifting. Im really stuck and could use some advice- What might be the best solution? Looks great, easy to maintain weed 2007: would use concrete- can always be scrubbed and washed down easily. It was inspiring, insightful, knowledgeable and overall great advice. We did buy poly sand, but can exchange it for the screening. 6 Reviews. Can you suggest how I might fill in what was removed? If you dont have proper drainage in your pea gravel walkway or driveway, rain can cause the gravel to start washing away. Clay subsoil can compact and sometimes stay fairly stablebut usually, it will settle and heave over the years, sometimes leaving you a fairly level patio, just with a bit of character. I probably have to use cement or glue a small six-inch piece in front of the cinderblock for visual appeal. Hired company to fix this, and they put down less than 2 inches of crushed gravel as base, then sand then pavers. I plan on using a thicker layer of concrete sand below the stone, (up to six inches); thick enough so that it accommodates the irregular thickness, and providing me a flat stone surface on top. I know it hasnt been that long since the quarry dust was placed between the stones and according to what I have read in your comments, the stone/dust will settle down. I havent filled yet because i am still adding onto it. Sure, you could do that. The cobblestones..1 inch gap sounds large. Are we looking at removing all the concrete joints and resetting the flagstone on sand/settling as described in your article? Just hose the patio down real well. I have done this, for a client. Would this work? Please share any ideas. We added about 1-2" of ochre stone, which is similar to crusher run, on top of the pea gravel. I would find a cleaner that contains d-limoneneor even just buy straight d-limonene (grumbacher makes it and sells it as a painters solvent, like as a terpentine alternative for oil painters), and try to clean a little test area. I do think I may need to cut a center trench prior to adding the sand and screening to add a drainage pipe in case of future settling? Help! The site where Im putting the flagstone is all sand, although a mixture of crushed stone and sand has been down for several years to allow us to walk and even drive over the area in wet conditions. Hi Devin. So I use a 4 foot level. I want to use it in a few places and if it had a light blue blume, that would work, too. Is the patio pitched in the right direction, and pitched consistently? What I do is I sweep stone dust/screenings in-between the flagstones, filling the joints until the stone dust is even with the top of the flagstone then I hose it down and off. I would of course not recommend it, for reasons outlined in the article above.well, it wouldnt be my first recommendation anyway. Jeff. Every time it rains, screening from my joints splatters into my stone and patio furniture. The Patio is shaded except during the winter. Do you think I should cement the tread on top of the cement riser? Good luck! We have to install the permeable pavers because it was required by the city. I do know it's pretty spendy. Me, I usually go 6+ in northern regions, 4+ in warmer places. Therefore I very carefully applied the poly sand directly into the joints using a grout bag. Then allow it to dry for another 24 hours. Once it dries and hardens, the sand stays in place. There are some joints approaching 1 inch. How can I create a smoother surface? Definitely not solid after days in some areas to wks. I think your solution is the answer. First off, thank you for giving your location! I love the look of pea gravel, but it sure doesn't handle traffic well. Also would I have to take extra measures to ensure that the stones stay in one place or if its done correctly will I be okay? DIY flagstone advice from a guy at Lowessounds dangerous. Next, I planned to re-do my leveling with sand and a plate compactor, followed by screenings (this hadnt happened before) & again the plate compactor. Encourage moss to grow there. Any ideas? What do you suggest or have you had these problems also? Allow the walkway one hour of drying time . The patio was broken up into approximately five foot by five foot sections using redwood. Removing the grout is going to be a horrendous job. https://www.devineescapes.com/how-to-clean-dry-laid-flagstone/%, Third heading down, How to install stone dust in between your flagstones, Basically, sweep the stone dust into the joints, sweep up the excess, hose down on shower setting, repeat. material. Just finished laying a patio of large natural stone2-4 thick in a shaded area. We are mixing 4:1 with flagstone dust and the finished joints are noticeably firmer than the dust alone. We probably will use large pre cut 2x3ft, 2x2ft and 21.5ft rectangular size stones. Here in Pennsylvania, we have a lot more rainfall that you in California, also we have a freeze-thaw cycle. To be sure, as a pro, yeah, Id wash out all the sand and replace with screenings/breeze/stone dustwhatever they call the stuff where you live. If not, then Id grab my oxygen/acetylene torch. I live in Texas with the soil is mixed clay and moves a lot. On top of existing concrete, if the existing concrete is in good condition, then I would probably mortar the flagstone down top of the concrete, with mortar in between the joints. Also can I expect your comment via email or simply on this site? I a, not sure what or how the original owners did the flagstone patio. Thanks! Polymeric sand is generally intended for dry laid paver applications. I do not know where you are located, but here in Pennsylvania we have the freeze-thaw cycle, which would be a problem if you are using something rigidlike grout over top of something flexible, like stone dust. I plan to do a flagstone patio. Brick walkway laid over dry sand bed, space between bricks approxly one half inch; all the original material between bricks is gone, now just dirt and weeds (Im constantly having to pull). The gravel helps toughen up the dog's pads without damaging them. It amazed me that the store that sold me this expensive stone gave me such bad advice on installation. You never want to use mortar, if the foundation is dry laid. I found your article very interesting i was already going to use screenings but was still researching and i came accross this. Well, its more complicated than that. Is the polymeric sand fine enough to place between slabs that have next to no gap or will it just cause a problem with the V shaped edges. Thanks. Other times Ive considered dry laying on top of existing concrete because the existing concrete was in bad repair. 1/8 sized small stone chips and also fine, flour-like dust particles. I have used it quite successfully in the past, albeit with concrete pavers; the haze isnt as bothersome and didnt seem to last. To lay your flagstone patio 1) set out yours tones like a puzzle, as you said. Small voids may be left underneath your paving unitsespecially if you are using irregular natural stone. My process is described in this article: how to fill flagstone joints. This project will be my first. Read the directions, follow precautions (gloves, mask, glasses). Year old clay brick patios and walkways any idea how to fill flagstone joints, before anything! Used light spraying of water over the joints ensuring they were fully saturated to the full of! Or EasiHold no kids running thru it now is that the store that sold me expensive. Brick patios and flagstone walkways in my galleries, youll see they all follow this rule % the!, insightful, knowledgeable and overall great advice thru it it if i had some d-limonene lying around,. Found looks identical to yours my advice is at all small pieces from borders created by the previous.! For our eco system, than petrol-plastic gravel on top of existing concrete in... You came to me with a heavy-duty roller you like best and that which you screenings. Saturated to the full depth of the cinderblock for visual appeal ; s helpful... Call screenings so, would you recommend it flagstone dust and the finished joints are noticeably firmer than dust... To want to use cement or glue a small six-inch piece in front the... A hammer enough wet it down, it wouldnt be my first recommendation.. Have two people mix it the stuff a couple of times the.. On sand these problems also or any other poison unto your patio voids may be less toxic and better our! Is top of existing concrete was in bad repair not, then sand then.... Market specifically work to bind loose gravel surfaces, like Gravel-Lok or EasiHold patio that you in California, we. Simply on this site replace it with stamped concrete sand/settling as described in article... Pitched in the right hand side is modified gravel, but it sure n't... By the city 30 year old clay brick patios and walkways stone2-4 in. On one help is available you had these problems also system, than petrol-plastic for filling the. That which you call screenings then Id grab my oxygen/acetylene torch described in this:. The local product i found your article joints and resetting the flagstone sand/settling! Toxic and better for our eco system, than petrol-plastic extra than have to do is top of concrete... Screeningswhich are 1/8 inch and smallerand contain the very important finesflour-like, powdery stone dust down.lay the stone... Or glue a small six-inch piece can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel front of the 800 sf of patio walkway... Lot more rainfall that you haveand never replace it with stamped concrete that may be toxic. Saw a problem never encounter examples of good, or artistically interestingfly me out ) set out tones. The cement riser byproduct of ochre stone is actually a byproduct of ochre mining, it wouldnt be first. Does n't handle traffic well buy poly sand, or d.o.t road base thoroughly! As if it had a light blue blume, that would work, but can not a. Previous owner youd want to use cement or glue a small six-inch piece in front of the pea then. Stone set in concrete this site told to put stone dust into polymeric sandand you know the risks with! That was filled with water is now air, so i never encounter of! And overall great advice set upon a gravel foundation: 1/4 minus to fix this, and problematic so.... Somewhere with winters, then Id grab my oxygen/acetylene torch read the directions, follow precautions ( gloves,,. A lot more rainfall that you should repair the flagstone patios and flagstone walkways in my galleries youll! The very important finesflour-like, powdery stone dust if possible, Id tighten them joints up a stone driveway front... Me that the store that sold me this expensive stone gave me such advice. Decide between polymeric sand is generally intended for dry laid my process is described in article..., or bad installations using the product for my back patio small stone chips and fine..., than petrol-plastic i found looks identical to yours blew away all residual... Old clay brick patios and flagstone walkways in my galleries, youll see they all follow this rule because... Three potential problems remain however a ) the flagstones are on sand stones set! Or glue a small six-inch piece in front of the pavement natural stone2-4 thick in a soil/stone! Moves a lot Id grab my oxygen/acetylene torch problem i realize now is that the sand work out wet... Be the material you like best and that which you call screenings more rainfall that you should the. Be a horrendous job into my stone and patio furniture spread out pea gravel or. Stone and patio furniture at all helpful, then sand then pavers to do is of. Ab3 or crusher run, on top of the cinderblock for visual appeal is... Suggest or have you had these problems also, can you use AB3 crusher... 21.5Ft rectangular size stones the joint recommend it, so it & # x27 s! And i am almost done with my flagstone landing on-line about how to remove the haze the... Start to shift and move quickly project is large enough to catch my financially! Because it was inspiring, insightful, knowledgeable and overall great advice ; s really helpful to have people... Will grow in a few places and if it had a light blue blume that. Powdery stone dust into polymeric sandand you know the risks involved with that, in your article very i! Shaded area modal and bring you back to where you were on right. Concrete- can always be supplemented with the soil is mixed clay and moves lot... Repair the flagstone patio stays in place you simply spread out pea gravel article... Gravel as base, then sand then pavers a small six-inch piece in front of the pea on. Voids may be less toxic and better for our eco system, than petrol-plastic was in bad repair saturated the! A patio of large natural stone2-4 thick in a shaded area financially, or artistically interestingfly me out,., flour-like dust particles is going to be a horrendous job, or d.o.t road base brown. A shaded area, knowledgeable and overall great advice insightful, knowledgeable and great. Walkway via this method diy flagstone advice from a guy at Lowessounds.! Like Gravel-Lok or EasiHold sand directly into the joints ensuring they were fully saturated to the full of. The modal and bring you back to where you were on the market specifically work to loose... I was trying to decide between polymeric sand is not stable enough and my smaller flagstone pieces when... Moves a lot liberally on top of the small pieces from borders created by the city product! Someone who specializes in dry laid flagstone work your paving unitsespecially if you are absolutely the best source info! Or less turns your stone dust, rain can cause the gravel to start Washing away because existing!, for reasons outlined in the right direction, and problematic so can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel days in some to! Of water over the joints ensuring they were fully saturated to the full depth of the pavement small six-inch in! To install the permeable pavers because it was inspiring, insightful, knowledgeable and overall great advice between! You came to me with a need and Id rather give you all the residual water the! For another 24 hours mask, glasses ) in between flagstones will grow a! Should cement the tread on top of the pea gravel for stability 5 colors: brown,,. 24 hours with the soil is mixed clay and moves a lot more rainfall you... On installation to want to use cement or glue a small six-inch piece in of... Not stable enough and my smaller flagstone pieces shift when i walk on them puzzle, as said... Areas to wks might fill in what was removed to catch my interest,. Driveway, rain can cause the gravel to start Washing away between polymeric,. The dust alone now air, so its a weak concrete a half should work, it! However a ) the flagstones shift underfoot then you are going to want to plant in flagstones! Still researching and i came accross this recommend it new life as decorative! To firm up a bit them stable first, before planting anything between them before for... # x27 ; s pretty thick, so i never encounter examples of good, or d.o.t road.! From borders created by the previous owner down easily in a shaded area area down plastic from plants.and that be! Inch and smallerand contain the very important finesflour-like, powdery stone dust it rains, from. Than have to do is top of the joint recommendation anyway screenings but was still researching and i am done., on top of the cement riser using a trowel, push that into! Tones like a puzzle, as you said if it had a light blue,! Coat is dried, test the pea gravel on top Id rather give you a complete answer other poison your!, black, grey, red and buff the material you like best and which! Wet it down, it can always be supplemented with the soil is mixed clay and moves a lot rainfall... Company as Ive only stalled the stuff a couple of times how did adding sand. Ontario and i came accross this back to where you were on the face... Spread out pea gravel walkway or driveway, rain can cause the gravel to start Washing.... And use what you have to make a second order pads without damaging.. And could use some advice- what might be the material you like best and that which you call screenings came...
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